I used to say this at doors "We're not here to change your religion today." This was a true statement. I wasn't going to change their religion that day. Of course, I hoped to change their religion eventually...
Olin Moyles Ghost
JoinedPosts by Olin Moyles Ghost
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30
"We are not hear to change your religion"....why do Witnesses lie?
by Witness 007 inthe truth = yes we are!!
ive said this in the past but really why am i at the door...not to sell vaccum cleaners!
we dont "force" people to change religions.....we just force them to stay in with disfellowshiping......."we don't hate gays".......we are just waiting for them to be burnt to death at armagedon..
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UN to destroy Religion like JW predict???
by asilentone inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aruoyudd74.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
No. That's idiotic. First, the UN is practically impotent. It couldn't ban its way out of a paper bag. Second, the UN is actually going in the other direction--trying to prevent people from criticizing religion. See Resolution 62/154 (http://www.undemocracy.com/A-RES-62-154); and see Christopher Hitchens' commentary on it (http://www.slate.com/id/2212662/).
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Those who don't hear "truth" free ticket into Paradise...yet babies will be killed??
by Witness 007 inwhy preach??
those who don't hear the "truth" will get a second chance in paradise, so we are just condemning people to death who close the door on us!
also babies and children of worldly people will be killed with their parents which contradicts this first policy.....any thoughts??.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
You've stumbled across a glitch in JW/WT theology. This is the reason that the WT has to (at least implicitly) teach that only JWs can survive the battle of Armageddon. Otherwise, the "preaching work" is not really a life-saving work.
I see two main alternatives:
- You must be a JW to survive the battle of Armageddon. Thus, the preaching work is life-saving. But also this means that if the end really is imminent, then God is going to kill lots of Arabs, Chinese, etc., who have never heard of Jesus, much less the Watchtower. OR
- God and Christ are going to judge peoples' hearts, and those with "good hearts" will be allowed to survive Armageddon even if they never heard "the Truth."
The problem with #2 is that it contradicts the WT teaching that their preaching is life-saving. As the OP pointed out, this belief would transform the preaching work into mere busy-work--basically the modern-day equivalent of God telling Ezekiel to lay on his side for a year (Ezekiel 4).
Thus, the WT is pinned into a theological corner. For obvious reasons, it does not want to go on record stating that only JWs will survive the imminent end. But it also doesn't want its all-important, life-saving preaching work relegated to mere busy-work. Thus, you get what we have today: a confusing, inconsistent, contradictory doctrine.
I would say that the JW doctrine about who survives Armageddon is every bit as confusing as Christendom's Trinity doctrine...and probably has less Scriptural support.
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Jehovah's Witnesses do not know their own doctrines
by BonaFide ini am still active to try and help family and friends, so that's why i say we.
i know i have brought this up before, but i cannot get over the fact that every service group i go in, and every dinner after the meeting, or coffee or whatever, no one seems to be reading the magazines.
no one understands the doctrines of the generation, 1919, not even blood.. when i bring up one of those subjects, one in the group will repeat the phrase we learned at the meetings, such as "blood fractions is not really blood" or "i think the generation refers more to the anointed or something like that.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Agree 100%. Most JWs--especially the under-40 born-in crowd--don't know much about doctrine beyond (1) no trinity, (2) no hell, (3) no immortal soul, and (4) paradise earth.
And to the point relayed by Wobble about "it's still the best way of life": When JWs say this, I doubt they're talking about getting up early, putting on a cheap suit and pestering their neighbors on Saturday mornings. I also doubt they're talking about running home from work on Thursday night, gulping down some food, putting on another cheap suit, and sitting at a sales meeting for 2 hours. Rather, they're probably talking about living a morally clean life according to "Bible principles."
So, here the Witness is basically co-opting all of the good stuff from the Bible and making it the sole province of the JWs. As if you could not possible follow "Bible principles" if you weren't a JW. This is not sound reasoning.
I actually agree that living by "Bible principles" (and by this, I mean the golden rule and Jesus' lessons on morality) is the best way of life. But you don't have to be a JW to follow these rules. There are lots of people in the world who do their best to live by these principles. Some of these are not Christians--some are not even religious. And they would agree that it's the best way of life.
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Comparisons between todays Witnesses and those 40 years ago
by truthseeker inloyalty, devotion, hardcore, willing to lose jobs to attend friday of the district convention.
these were the witnesses who came into the truth or were born into it some 30-60 years ago.
they could reason from the scriptures and hold their own at the doors.. today, i see a large mass of witnesses who have been in some 10-15 years who really don't know much about their own faith, could not explain 1914, are unwilling to lose jobs and sleep over attending meetings and assemblies and live double lives.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
It must have been exciting to be a JW 40 years ago. 1975 was only 6 years away. I can imagine how these folks thought that the end was right around the corner. Think about how much popular culture changed between 1964 and 1969.
For exampe, in 1964, the rebellious rock and roll music was exemplified by bands like the Dave Clark Five who wore suits and the Beatles back when they had short hair. By 1969, rebellious rock and roll music was Jimi Hendrix, the Who, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, and the Beatles with long hair.
Never mind the Vietnam war and the protests against it and the so-called sexual revolution. I can see how religous fundamentalists like the JWs would think that the end of the world was just around the corner. Add all that to Fred Franz's numerology and I bet it was an exciting time to be a JW. I'm not surprised those folks were more hard-core than today's country club witnesses.
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Latest Updates On Chitty And Greenlees-Two Governing Body Brothers,
by Scott77 inhi buddies,.
please, can you or anyone around this site updates us on the two governing body brothers, chitty and greenlees?
can we learn any lesson from these two men as to the way the wts deals with some people in general?
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Olin Moyles Ghost
I think those 2 guys took the idea of being the "Bride of Christ" a little too seriously...if ya know what I mean...
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Change of Heart
by evergreen ini am writing in to say that i have come to a decision to return to the meetings at my local kingdom hall.
after much soul searching and careful thought, i feel happy with my decision.. i have decided to submit this on the jwdf to prove to god that i am genuine in my sincerity towards him and to show repentance for the things i have said in the past.
the reasons as to why i have decided to return are as follows;.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
I'm all for freedom of religion, and if an adult wants to join a high-control group like the Witnesses--more power to him/her. I think the OP here is probably a good fit for the Witnesses.
As we all know, the Witnesses frown on higher education. It's fairly obvious that the OP has not taken a course in statistics. The OP states the following:
There can only possibly be one of three outcomes now that I have chosen the path I am taking.
1/ That I will enter into Gods Kingdom and enjoy all the blessings as promised by God and his son Jesus; or that I am resurrected as one of the righteous or unrighteous ones if I fall asleep in death before the coming of the Kingdom on earth.
2/ That I will not make it through the great Tribulation for what ever reason - as rejected by Jesus.
3/ That the Kingdom is indeed a figment of mens imaginations and that I will simply die in X amount of years; and there is nothing else.
That still leaves me with a one in three chance of such a wonderful hope. This is far better than no hope at all.
Note that the OP says she has a 1/3 chance. Are you kidding? That's like buying a lottery ticket and saying you have a 1 in 2 chance of winning the $200 million jackpot--either you will win or you won't! The fact is that of the two outcomes, one is much less likely than the other.
Same thing with the OP's Pascal-esque choices. In order for the OP to get his/her wish, at least two incredibly unlikely things must be true: (1) the Bible, with all of its contradictions and errors must be the infallible word of an omnipotent God; and (2) the Watchtower organization must be God's one true channel for salvation.
But, hey, I like the fantasy world that the OP is living in. Maybe I'll pick up a lottery ticket tonight--I've got a 1 in 2 chance of winning the jackpot!
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Can't speak with me, unless they need something
by Stan Conroy inafter many, many years outside of the jw world, my elderly parents finally decided to give me an ultimatum.
i either rejoin the jw's or they will never speak with me again.
apparently my brother is going to get the same choice.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
The quote from the "Flock" book isn't saying that it's ok for JWs to associate with their DF'd family. It's merely saying that this normally isn't a DF-ing offense.
If you are a JW and openly spending time with DF'd family members (for example, if you're seen eating with them at a restaurant), you are almost certainly going to be counseled for this. If you keep on doing it despite the counsel, the elders have 2 grounds to disfellowship you: (1) association with DF'd person; and (2) loose conduct. Remember that anything can become loose conduct if you are repeatedly counseled about it and are perceived to have a rebellious attitude toward the counsel.
So don't think for a minute that this is a "get out of jail free" card for JWs who want to hang out with DF'd family. Sure, if you keep it on the down-low and your elders aren't out to get you, then you are probably ok. But as soon as the elders decide to come after you about this, they can DF you in a heartbeat.
The best bet for avoiding judicial action for associating with DF'd family is to play the "essential family business" card. That is, if you are confronted about associating with a DF'd family member, tell the elder that it involved some important family business. Of course, that may be a bit hard to pull off if the association in question occurred at a pub at 1am...still worth a try though.
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So I went to dinner with a big group of Witnesses last night - No Biblical discussion or WT talk of any kind
by BonaFide inthere were 20 in the group from 3 congregations.
it was kind of a "special talk" special meal with the speaker and his wife.. no one, i mean no one, not the elders there, nor the pioneers, talked about anything "spiritual.
" everything was about work, entertainment, personalities in the congregation, and music.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Not surprised in the least. When I was a believing JW I didn't talk about "spiritual" things. It didn't really interest me. I think that's the way a lot of JWs feel--especially those who were born into the faith.
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Is it possible that the WT society will soon collapse like a house of cards?
by BonaFide inthe recent internet phenomenon seems to be that 1. some news story breaks, and then 2. people start talking about it and twittering and forwarding emails about it.
and then it multiplies and multiplies until finally, 3. the whole world is talking about it.
the same with the madoff scheme.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Well, anything is possible, but I'm afraid it ain't gonna happen. At least not any time soon.
For example, how many JWs were there in 1974? Here we are, almost 35 years after the big 1975 disappointment and there are 4 times as many JWs as there were before! That's a 400% increase. I think the JWs will continue to have some increase over the next several years. There are plenty of territories full of poor, uneducated, desperate people.
And it's only a matter of time before China starts allowing more freedom of religion. When that happens, missionaries of all faiths are going to have a feeding frenzy. No doubt the JWs will get some portion of the converts. Think about it, even if only 1 out of every 1,000 Chinese accept the JW message, that would be 1.2 million new JWs.
So, I hate to be a 'wet blanket' but we should probably accept the fact that the JW/WT religion is going to be around for a while. There's a sucker born every minute.